Peter Pace On Homosexuality In The Military

“I believe homosexual acts between two individuals are immoral and that we should not condone immoral acts.”-Peter Pace


Of course, he is right. And I think he was nice about the way he said it. But now some of those involved in a homosexual lifestyle are demanding an apology. And I think if he doesn’t apologize, and he shouldn’t, he’s going to be tanked by our so-called ‘conservative’ leaders.

But what else did Peter Pace say? He said that adultery is immoral as well. And yet I don’t see adulterers asking for an apology. Because they know adultery is immoral. And yet both acts of immorality are condemned in Scripture! So if Peter Pace is using Biblical reasoning in his stand, which appears to be the case, he does very well to bring out the fact that we are not singling out homosexuality, but all kinds of immorality.

I received a question about homosexuality and the Bible a while back. I’m going to replay that post for you now, because it finishes my thoughts on how Christians should react to homosexuals.

I saw your email on a Christian site that talked about homosexuality issues and
so I wonder what your thoughts are on same sex romantic love are and if you
think this is a sin, where are we told this in the bible?

As far as ‘same sex romantic love’ goes, yes, I do believe it is a sin. Let me be clear, homosexual actions of any kind are sinful, romantic or casual. The standard rant from the other side is going to be that I am a homophobe.

I have many phobias, I’m very ‘Monkish‘ in that respect. Snakes scare me. As a matter of fact, most reptiles drive me nuts. Birds also scare me. But homosexuals don’t scare me. Murderers scare me. Adulterous women scare me. But not homosexuals. In fact, I have known some very pleasant gays and lesbians who would work side by side with me on the jobsite. One co-worker remarked to me how nice it was to be around a Christian who was nice to her. She went on to describe some of the injustices that Christians had committed against her, from lying about her job performance behind her back to open hostility towards her. I responded, ” You know I don’t agree with your lifestyle, and I believe that it is a sin. But that doesn’t mean I can’t love you and try convince you of the truth of the Gospel.” She responded, something to the effect of, “If you were the only Christian I knew, I would consider leaving my lifestyle and attending church. But I’ve been mistreated by too many Christians.”

She knew I thought she was living in sin. I didn’t avoid the issue when it came up. And yet when I would treat her with the respect that we have been taught by Christ that each and every one should expect from His followers, she knew that it was her sin that I disliked and not herself.

That homosexuality is said to be sin in the Bible is very clear.

Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the
dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth
about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the
Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen. For this reason God gave them up to
dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those
that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with
women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased
mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of
unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder,
strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God,
insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish,
faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who
practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to
those who practice them. (Rom 1:24-32)

There are a couple of things to point out here. First, that homosexuality is not the only sin that will condemn people to hell. Covetousness, envy, gossip, disobedience, and foolishness are also included in this list of sins that the Apostle says deserve death.Second, that homosexuality is not the unpardonable sin.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not
be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor
men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor
revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of
you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of
the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (1Co 6:9-11)

The same Apostle Paul now tells us again that those who practice sin, homosexuality and greediness both included, will not inherit the Kingdom of God. But he goes on to say to the Corinthian believers, “And such were some of you.” These Christians that Paul was writing to had formerly been sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, homosexuals, thieves, greedy, drunkards, revilers, and swindlers but now they were not. There is hope for all who sin. That hope is in the death of Christ.

Christ’s death cleanses, sanctifies, and justifies sinners. Sins are forgiven, repentance is granted, and righteousness is given by Christ for all who will come to Him. This includes the disobedient child and the homosexual.This, of course, is not an exhaustive treatment of the issues of homosexuality. I will leave that to better people than myself. But that homosexuality is a sin is stated clearly in Scripture. And equally as clear is the truth of the Gospel that can save homosexuals.

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10 Comments

Filed under homosexuality, Peter Pace, repentance

10 responses to “Peter Pace On Homosexuality In The Military

  1. “But what else did Peter Pace say? He said that adultery is immoral as well. And yet I don’t see adulterers asking for an apology.”

    This is a two way street. You don’t exactly see Christians with signs saying “God hates adulterers”. You also don’t see laws stating that adulterers can’t get married. You also don’t see adulterers getting beat up and often killed solely for the sake of being an adulterer (unless the spouse finds out…).
    Outside of the Christian book that everyone is apparently suppose to obey, there isn’t a whole lot saying that homosexuality is wrong (ethically). Christians haven’t exactly jumped up to give a decent argument for this either (in order to tell someone something is immoral you first need to ‘prove’ the infallibility of your cultural custom -ie. the good book). Adultery on the other hand has many ethical arguments for why it is wrong.

    What I don’t understand is why Christians are not up in arms over divorce. I mean, this is seriously one of those plank-in-the-eye sort of issues: conservative born again Christians have the highest divorce rate in the country (higher than ‘mainline’ Christians, Jews, and atheists). Ethically speaking, there is a whole lot more wrong with not committing to your spouse than two people of the same sex expressing their love for each other in a sexual manner.

  2. Thinking Ape,

    I don’t think we actually see any real Christians with signs that say, “God hates homosexuals.” If those people are Christians, then I think they are not behaving ‘Christianly’, in the sense that they are not behaving like ‘little christs’.

    That being said, I also don’t think we should be comparing homosexuality to adultery (or any sin to any other sin). when we do, we lose our footing on why sin is sin. Sin is not sin because it is culturally unacceptable behavior. Sin is not sin because it is worse than any other sin, even if that sin is arguably ‘worse’ by ethical standards.
    For example, I would rather be lied to than be murdered. Now these are both sin, and they both come from the same root…hatred. The liar hates me by disrespecting my mind while the murderer hates me by disrespecting my life.

    Point is, sin is sin for another reason…a reason outside of our behavior, our personal preferences, and our cultural norms.

    That reason is, in my opinion, God. God as Creator has the right to tell me how I am to live. and I do believe that God has spoken through Scripture. Now I can’t ‘prove’ that to anyone, but that does not mean that I have to be quiet and keep the truth that I am convinced of to myself. In fact, the very nature of being convinced of the veracity of a fact makes it virtually impossible to keep it to one’s self.

    If I believe Scripture is the normative standard for moral conduct, then I must unapologetically proclaim it as the normative standard for moral conduct. And that is whether anyone else believes it or not.

    Leaving the issue of the Bible as a normative standard for conduct leads to affirm Immanuel Kant’s words;
    “So live that the ethical decisions that you make would be good if they were elevated to the level of a universal norm.”

    If homosexuality were elevated to a universal norm, would that be a good thing? That’s the best extra-biblical ethical argument I can come up with.

    As for divorce; Divorce is not always sin on both sides, it is always sin on at least one side.

    The foundation of the problem, as I see it, lies in the fact that we allow our children to ‘practice divorce’ in their relationships long before they are married. When these kids, who are often as young as seven, get tired of their ‘boyfriend’ or ‘girlfriend’, they simply ‘break up’, and why shouldn’t they? There is no level of commitment to one another. If Christian parents would teach their children that relationships with the opposite sex were not to be taken so lightly, then I think that those statistics would drop considerably.

    Again, I would compare the virtues of love with the evil of separation in this case, but instead urge everyone to remember that both cases, homosexual relationships and non-commitment in marriage are both sin.
    But I also wonder at those statistics. Were the people polled divorced before or after becoming ‘Christian’? Did one spouse leave because of the conversion of the other?

  3. I understand that not all Christians are waving hate-filled signs, but in this situation, since you were talking about the media or something in popular culture, we must look how Christians are presented to those that are not Christians.

    I am sure we could go on the several tangents we’ve already started here but I will stick to the issue of homosexuality now. I agree with you that Kant’s categorical imperative is probably the strongest rational or ethical argument against homosexuality. This argument has several problems apart from the fact that I have never, apart from this occasion, heard an evangelical use it. The main problem with the argument is something that Kant understood and qualified, but has mainly been relegated to university classes: Kant’s categorical imperative was not an objective standard. It was a useful, dare I say utilitarian, guideline. Kant readily recognized this because the imperative broke down on so many occasions – not to mention was ultimately anti-Biblical when applied rigidly (even in the example case of lying).

    Again, this argument is as irrelevent as you present it because such ethical deliberations are of no concern to “Bible-believing” Christians – since, as you state, your normative norms are on the basis of belief, not reason. The problem is that the majority of the world does not hold to the infallibility and cultural-transcendence of the Bible. So while you might say that morality is a gift from God, someone else might say that your morality is based on cultural standards that stemmed from ancient Jewish and pre-Christian authors and developed through a history of a state religion.

  4. For Christian divorce rates see:
    http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm

    It is just one study and I take it with a grain of salt, but I don’t have to go very far in my fundamentalist/evangelical family to see the truth of the statistics.

    Note: “Hughes claim that 90% of divorces among born-again couples occur after they have been ‘saved.'”

    Psychologically this isn’t very hard to explain. Evangelical Christians are opposed to premarital co-habitation and sexual relations (some more extreme than others). These things are not friendly to a culture that rapidly changed in the 1960s with the invention of the “teenager” and marriage being based on a child’s choice rather than being forced to love the person you were selected to marry at a very young age (during Biblical authorship: very early teens, often immediately after a boy became a “man” and a girl became a “woman”).

    Dangit. Tangent.

  5. The problem is that the majority of the world does not hold to the infallibility and cultural-transcendence of the Bible.

    I think that’s where the Jesus’ command to “go into all the world and make disciples” comes in.:-)

  6. Jesus did not preach the infallibility of the scripture. That was a catholic development based on a pseudo-Pauline epistle (2 Tim 3:16)
    🙂

  7. Is this where we go back and forth like kids?

    I’ll say, “Oh yes he did!”

    You’ll say, “Nu-uh!”

    I’ll say, “Uh-huh!”
    (That was supposed to be in a good-natured tone.)

    What is your definition of infallibility? And take a look at some of the posts I have written on inerrancy and we’ll take the discussion over there. I think you can use the tags in the sidebar to find them.

  8. This may be minor to you but you should address him as General Pace. He is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a Marine Corps General!

    BTW I agree with your point.

  9. Frank

    John writes:
    This may be minor to you but you should address him as General Pace. He is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and a Marine Corps General!

    I’m not in the military. Peter Pace can learn to answer to “expletive” as far as I’m concerned.

    Note from Moderator: No foul language please.

  10. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve . homosexuality is a sin period

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